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10.23.2014

ESPN & ABC NBA analysts Mark Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy conference call Part Two

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This is Part Two of a conference call with ESPN/ABC NBA analysts Mark Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy. Read Part One HERE.

I just want to know how big of a jump do you think it’s going to be for Derek Fisher to go from playing the game to coaching it? What do you think his biggest challenges are going to be with the Knicks and finally with Jason, having made the same jump last year, do you see this now as a trend in hiring and what do you guys think of it?

JACKSON: Well, I think when you pick the right person, it can be successful. So certainly, do your homework. Interview guys. Watch their body of work beforehand. And there have been so many – whether it be even hiring veteran coaches, there have been some that have been successful, a lot that have been successful. There have been a lot that have failed. So I think it goes the same way with hiring guys fresh off of playing. You can’t say it doesn’t work if somebody is not successful at it. But I think when you look at Derek Fisher, when you look at his body of work as a player, as a leader, as a quality guy, there’s no question that he’s a guy that you can see being a head coach in this league for a long time to come.

So I’m sure he’ll do just fine. And he’s a guy that’s studied. He’s reached out to coaches. He’s prepared for this moment. So I think he’ll do just fine. The challenge is when you take these jobs, taking jobs where you’re in position to win. Obviously him having Phil Jackson making decisions in the front office, they’re going to what you believe is put them in position to be successful and by that I mean getting talent around them. I think it’s overblown to believe that somebody from the front office could win or lose ball games. This is going to be on Derek Fisher. And if it’s not on Derek Fisher, then he loses credibility within that locker room.

I’m sure he understands that. But he’s a young talented basketball mind that’s going to do very well. And I think it’s a trend that has gone that way lately. And some have been very successful and some haven’t. But I think ultimately you’ve gotta do your homework with knowing who you’re selecting to spearhead your next move as an organization and a franchise.

VAN GUNDY: I agree with Mark in that to me it’s all about who you’re picking and not just their level of experience. I think experience in any job is a great help. And whether you start as a head coach or start as an assistant coach anything you do will help you formulate your philosophy. And yet people like Mark who had never coached, hit it out of the park in Golden State. And so there’s no right or wrong. You asked about Jason Kidd. I think how Jason Kidd left Brooklyn has gotten a lot more attention unfortunately than what was accomplished when Jason Kidd was there. I thought Jason Kidd, after a real struggle early, kept his team together, helped them when they were injured to figure out a style of play that would help them be successful.

They won a tough seventh game on the road in the playoffs. So I think right now, because of all the innuendos thrown out about how he left, what gets overlooked is what a good job he did in his one year. And I think Lionel Hollins is a great coach as well. But great coaching, if it was easy to always know that it was going to follow a certain path, it would be easy to pick a great coach. I think different coaches have followed different paths and I think that the most important thing is to do what Pat Riley always used to say as far as identifying a coach. Find someone who is competent, sincere, reliable and trustworthy. And I think that’s what the New York Knicks have in Derek Fisher.

I was curious after seeing him play this preseason and knowing Kobe, how do you envision him playing this year, considering coming off of two major injuries?

JACKSON: I think he’s going to be aggressive. I think he’s going to be in attack mode. I think he’s going to score the basketball. But I think that’s a team that’s going to struggle. When you talk about the talent level and having the battle in the Western Conference, he’s got to be incredible or have an incredible season for them to have a chance to make the playoffs.

They’re just a team that’s in the process of changing right now. But it’s refreshing as a fan of the game to see him back. But I think the talent level around him will make it a tough season for the Los Angeles Lakers.

VAN GUNDY: I agree with Mark. You’ve seen even in preseason there’s been no hesitation or shyness. He’s getting them up there. And he’s going to have to be aggressive and efficient and really hit home runs every night, because around them they just don’t have the level of talent that the Laker fans are used to seeing.

And I think defensively they’re really going to be challenged. They just don’t have defenders. They don’t have basket protectors. I mean, it’s going to be a challenge to get stops. And so everyone’s going to focus on Bryant and there’s a lot of noise around now about him. But it’s great to have him back. He’s going to give championship effort.

He’s going to play as well as a 36 year old guard can play in this league. But at the end of the day they’re going through a rebuilding phase right now and they’re just going to have a lot of times where they can’t get stops. Because of that, it’s going to be a little bit of a struggle.

On that point, the talent you mentioned and the defensive part, Jeff, how do they overcome that? What’s your biggest area of concerns in regard to those two areas, as far as the talent?

VAN GUNDY: That they don’t have it. I’m being serious. How do you overcome that? You don’t. That’s why teams lose to better teams in this league. To think that Carlos Boozer all of a sudden is going to lock down the forward position and be able to guard pick and rolls, that’s not happening. To think that they’re going to get a shot blocking center that’s an everyday presence, Ronnie Price going from third point guard to he may start for them.

These are real issues. These aren’t easy things to overcome. It’s hard to win in this league, and I don’t think people understand how hard it is to get one win, let alone be a team that can be in the 50 win range and to do that you’ve got to have a lot of things. And the Lakers have had it for their whole history. So what they’re going through now is what most teams go through a lot of these struggles to find a roster that is capable of competing for a championship or to get into the playoffs. This is not unusual. It’s just unusual for the Lakers.

With regard to Russell Westbrook, I am curious where you both would rank him in terms of best player in the game or best players in the game, and just how ready do you think he is to take on this challenge of carrying the Thunder team without Kevin Durant?

JACKSON: I love Russell Westbrook. He’s as good as it gets. Extreme motor. Extreme passion for the game. Extreme competitor and playing against or coaching against Russell Westbrook, it baffled me when people would talk about they needed him to be more of a point guard. I wish he was – in coaching against him – more a point guard because it would make life easier for me as an opposing coach to game plan against him. I think what makes that team so dangerous or what has made them so dangerous and so successful has been that two-headed monster of Durant and Westbrook. As great as Durant is, I think Westbrook’s greatness and his constant attack mode makes life so much easier for everybody else on the floor.

But he’s as good as it gets. Not just at a point guard position, but he’s to me he’s a top five, top seven player in this league and I think that team is going to be successful in the absence of Durant and when he comes back they’ll take time to pick up where they left off. I don’t have them missing much. And that’s not to disrespect Durant. I just think that obviously Scott Brooks has done an outstanding job coaching that team. They’re loaded with talent. And they have a culture of winning. So they will find ways to win ball games along with Westbrook’s greatness.

VAN GUNDY: I agree with Mark. I love Russell Westbrook. I love his competitive spirit. They always say your greatest strength is your greatest weakness. And so I love his emotion. I love his emotion and aggressiveness. Sometimes can that be a negative? Yeah, but who cares. You look at the body of work, as Mark always says, and overall Russell Westbrook has been one of the great draft choices and unexpected by many for him to have this type of career.

I mean, this is a guy who came out of college, who wasn’t labeled a point guard. He has made the transition extremely well. He handled an injury after being extremely durable and has come back. I just love everything about him. You know, they have a real challenge with Durant out. They’re going to need everybody to be playing well. And I think if they can be .500 during his absence or a little bit above, that will be a tremendous accomplishment.

They have great stability. They have ownership stability. They have Sam Presti stability and they have Scott Brooks stability, along with their two foundational pieces in Durant and Westbrook. Now one of those foundation pieces is out, but because of [Serge] Ibaka, Reggie Jackson and Nick Collison, Perkins, if he gets back from injury, they’ll be able to manage Durant’s absence. But no one can overcome it.

So I think a great goal for them would be .500, a little bit over. That would be a tremendous accomplishment in the West during Durant’s absence.

Why don’t more teams use the triangle offense? And I know Jeff you’re not a big fan of the preseason, but just judging from what you’ve seen from the Knicks, do they look like a playoff team? Do you think they’re going to make the playoffs?

VAN GUNDY: So yes I think they’ll make the playoffs. And yes, I still agree with myself that the preseason is a waste of time. So I’m going to agree with both of those things. The triangle, first of all, you don’t teach anything you don’t know. I think anybody confusing a system with a reason for success is making a huge mistake. Systems don’t win games, players do. What you try to do with any system that you incorporate is to put the players in their areas of strength and try to hide or minimize their weaknesses.

And the triangle for Pippen and Jordan, with a lot of shooting around them, was a tremendous system. The same with Bryant and O’Neal and Gasol and Bryant. So it can work and other systems could have worked and they would have won it. So the triangle itself is just an offense based on freedom of the ball to go to different places. Everybody feeling involved. I think it’s a good thing. But the triangle itself is not going to be the reason they win or lose. It’s going to come down to Carmelo Anthony playing exceptionally well, [Iman] Shumpert bouncing back with a big year. J.R. Smith playing well. All of those things. It’s not going to be because of a system.

JACKSON: And I agree with Coach. Obviously in this league you win with players and Phil Jackson had tremendous success in his coaching career with the triangle offense, with incredible basketball players, all-time great basketball players. And I think that more than a system won the championship. I think there are teams in this league that run part of the triangle offense. But nobody has experienced the success of Phil Jackson with that system.

And talking about whether they’ll make the playoffs, I think they’ll be in the hunt along with some other improved teams in the Eastern Conference. The question will be the challenge on the defensive end for the Knicks, the approach defensively, and I think the wildcard is Amare Stoudemire, watching him in the preseason he’s got a lot of body, looks like, sad to say, the old Amare. He was a guy that was explosive at the rim, pick and pop as good as it gets, big man in the pick and roll situation. But that’s a team that’s going to be in the mix with a bunch of other teams as far as chasing down a playoff slot.

When you said you believe they will make the playoffs, what’s the number one reason why you say that?

VAN GUNDY: Well, I like [Jose] Calderon. Not just that he’s a great shooting, low-turnover point guard, which really doesn’t fit necessarily the triangle, in that he’s not going to be in a lot of pick and rolls. But I also think he has Nash like qualities where he’s a beloved teammate.
And in difficult situations, he can bring people together. I think he’s a great leader coming into a team. I also think Carmelo Anthony is going to find a way to have a great year. And then they need, I think, their wing play is going to improve. Last year their wing play was not even close to good enough.

And I think both Smith and Shumpert will have better years.

Jeff, I know you were a believer in the Rockets last year, and you mentioned that you thought five teams from the West had a chance to make the Finals. Are the Rockets one of those teams, and if so why? If not, why not? And how much of a difference would Bosh have made?

VAN GUNDY: I think I was a little light on my Western teams. I actually have six teams. And I do think the Rockets are one of them. It’s well chronicled they lost a lot of good pieces, Chandler Parsons being the highest paid one that went away. But I thought [Omer] Asik had some great moments for the Rockets and I think they would have been seeded higher last year if not for him being unavailable for a good chunk of the regular season.

And Jeremy Lin, I think, even though it’s become a sport unto itself to try to pick apart Jeremy Lin, he was a valuable contributor there. So I think they did a good job in getting Trevor Ariza. I think their starting lineup has better balance between offense and defense there now with Ariza there. And you have two of the top 10 players in the game in Dwight Howard and James Harden. So I think it’s going to come down to they’re going to score and score well. And then what are they capable of on the defensive end? Will Harden and Howard set an every night tone? Because everybody can talk about it. Everybody can say it in the preseason, and that’s why I really don’t listen to a lot of what people say. It’s about what they do. And so will they set that tone defensively every night where everybody else says, man, defense is important to our two best players? They’re going for it this year, and then [Patrick] Beverly and [Terrence] Jones and Ariza, their defensive prowess becomes even more impactful.

So I think it really comes down to the defense and getting better and it starts always with your best players.



Bosh, how much of a difference would he have made?

VAN GUNDY: That’s a night and day difference. You know what I’m saying? Because not only if they had Bosh, but then they match on Chandler. So the roster is just different. Bosh is a great, great basketball player with the versatility from a shooting standpoint to do what Houston loves to do which is spread the floor and also the versatility that he could have been the backup center.

He could get to the free throw line. I mean, he’s already proven, Bosh has, that he can play and fit in with other great players. So listen, if they got Bosh, I think they would have had the best roster in the league, because I think then they would have gone over the – I think they would have chosen to have gone over – not only the salary cap but the luxury tax, but they would have been all in and I think it would have been a good bet with that team.

Mark, do you agree that Houston is one of the five or six that could be a finalist?

JACKSON: I agree with that. And the reason why is just like Coach said you’ve got two of the top 10 players in the world and game changers. Dwight Howard, his ability to dominate from the paint position. He looks healthy. His body looks live and James Harden, offensively he’s got it all, his ability to score the basketball, carry that team, get to the free throw line and put pressure on your defense. I think the challenge with them won’t be scoring the basketball. The challenge with them will be being better on the defensive end. And when they do that, they’re a dangerous team that’s certainly more than capable of winning it all.

I have a Miami Heat question for each of you. Jeff, when you look at teams that have lost the superstar like Miami just did, a lot of times they go into these prolonged slides. Do you think Miami has done enough to avoid that?

VAN GUNDY: It’s hard to recover from losing a talent like James. But Miami has shown, with Micky Arison and Pat Riley, that they have found ways to always acquire a star. And in this case they kept stars and everybody is talking about Wade’s diminishing skills. And I don’t see a diminishing in skills. I think diminishing area is in health. So it’s critical that he remain healthy for them to have a shot. I think Bosh is an excellent player. I think they’re going to win between 45 and 50 games. I think they’ve got a great shot to have home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs.

And I think they will guard and they’re going to share the ball and they won’t beat themselves and I think Erik Spoelstra does a magnificent job. I think they’re going to be a very solid playoff contender and yet down the road, you look in a couple more years, Wade and Bosh, as they keep getting older, where is that next star talent going to come from?

The only thing I would say is Micky Arison and Pat Riley have found a way since Pat Riley has been there for years.

Mark, from a coaching perspective what do you think about the idea of running an offense primarily through Chris Bosh?

JACKSON: That’s a great question. And Chris Bosh is a proven guy. When you look at his success in Toronto when he was the primary focus on the offensive end, his ability to post the basketball, isolating that post area, getting to the free throw line, he’s now added the ability to step out and shoot the three-pointer. He’s a guy that certainly can carry that team at times.

But their success will depend on the health of Dwyane Wade, his explosiveness, how he’s able to bounce back from game to game. He’s a guy that’s a game changer and proven to be able to carry a team offensively whether it be pick and roll, isolations – that team will win ball games because of the culture that’s been developed, the habits that they have, because of Micky Arison and Pat Riley and Erik Spoelstra. I thought they did a great job of identifying Luol Deng, a guy who doesn’t have to prepare for a system. He knows how to play the game of basketball and he’s a winner.

I think this preseason I’ve heard four or five different teams claim to have the best back court in the league. Just wondered where you thought the Warriors fit in in that discussion, and also with Klay [Thompson] and Steph [Curry] playing together for a fourth season now, how do you see them expanding together as they go forward?

JACKSON: I think there are a number of teams that can boast having the best back court in the league. And certainly the Warriors are one of those teams. I’m close to those guys. Obviously, in my opinion they’re the greatest shooting back court that’s ever played in the game.
They certainly are in discussion for the best back court in the game. And when you’re talking about Steph’s jump from what he was to an All-Star and All-Star starter and talk about Klay’s jump to where he is a guy that’s going to make a boatload of money and in my opinion the best two way shooting guard in the world, and it’s not even close. To see the summer they have had, both winning gold medal winners, and both high-quality, high-character individuals that defend and compete, I think they’re in the discussion and I would be biased to say that they are.

VAN GUNDY: I want you to be my height man, I love it. I agree with Mark. I think what’s been overlooked is Curry’s improvement from when he first came in to now. I think he was always a great shooter, but I mean he is a great, great player. I’m not into rankings as much. But he’s gotta be in the top 15 players in the world, right? I mean, this guy is so good.

When Mark said what I thought at the time was the audacious thing of the best shooting back court ever last year and Klay Thompson being the best two way guard and you start studying it and you say to yourself who guards like Klay Thompson? I think Klay Thompson his defensive versatility is a perfect fit for Curry in that they can always put Thompson on whoever is the most difficult matchup and with his size and length and lateral quickness, I mean, it wasn’t like Klay Thompson came in a great defender through his work and great coaching in Golden State. This guy has really developed into like a legitimate all defensive type player which fits in perfectly with Curry.

So to me Klay Thompson is without question a maximum-salary player. And I think he’s going to get it. I mean, he’s going to get it from someone. This guy is a max-salary guy.

JACKSON: You can take the think out. He’s going to get it.

VAN GUNDY: You’re right. And he should. He’s that good.



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